National Anthem -- I'm confused and curious

[kz_blogorambling]

Following up with something Biggirl mentioned on the SDMB...

When I was young I was taught that national anthem protocol included standing, facing the flag, and paying respectful attention. Men were to remove hats. I was not taught to hold my hand over my heart. Although this appears to be entirely in line with "official protocol," (ETA: or not!) there has apparently been a kerfuffle over this. If I were running for office, what I was taught might get me in hot water publicly. This makes me wonder if my experience was unusual, or related to the time or place where I grew up.

So, a poll.

[Poll #1082478]

Here's what I'm pretty sure my elders were following when I was taught the national anthem:
http://www.menc.org/guides/patriotic/reprise.pdf

Comments

[zette.livejournal.com]

I was taught to hold my hand over my heart during the pledge but not the SSB.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_likelife/]

Ditto for me.

[delphica.livejournal.com]

Same for me.

As an adult, the hand on the heart thing is ... somewhat weird for me, because the "right" place to put my hand (or at least, where I used to put it when saying the Pledge in elementary school) looks pretty much like I'm resting it on my boob. I remember we had one teacher who would put her hand more in the center of her chest, more like over her sternum -- when I was a kid, I thought this was because biologically speaking, one's heart is more in the center than it is in the classic rendering of someone placing their hand over the heart, and that she was being a stickler. Ha! Now that I also have a mammoth rack, I get what she was doing. I also see women do it with the hand up almost on their shoulder.

I'm also still a hold-out for not taking off my hat, because I am a woman. Even if I'm wearing a baseball cap, it's usually still part of my 'do and involves bobby pins. I think that's the rationale, that women are more likely to have hats that are more difficult to remove. I have had people sneer at me over this at ballgames, but I'm sticking to it.

Taught Shmaut

[js-africanus.livejournal.com]

In

UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 36
CHAPTER 10

You'll read the following:

§171. Conduct during playing

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there. [emphasis added]

That's the U.S. Flag Code.

Re: Taught Shmaut

[crankyasanoldma.livejournal.com]

Thanks, that's interesting. It's good to have an official source!

It strikes me is that the flag code is like wedding etiquette. There are people who don't know it well, and/or don't follow it, but some of those same people can be quick to jump all over someone who they catch violating some part of it.

Re: Taught Shmaut

[js-africanus.livejournal.com]

Yeah, or the more-patriotic-than-though asshats who tie the flag to their car's radio antenna. I'm surprised FOX News hasn't sold a line of U.S. Flag Toilet Paper for the truly patriotic souls. The overriding rule, that the flag is to be treated as a living thing, is probably the rule most forgotten & most abused.

Re: Taught Shmaut

[crankyasanoldma.livejournal.com]

I saw an interesting bumper sticker the other day that is tangentially related....I'll post it this week (I took a photo).

There are some who think that the post office is violating flag code by issuing stamps with the flag's image. But they do that every freaking time they have to issue a stamp without a denomination on it.

Not treading on them.

[mrblue92.livejournal.com]

I, for one, feed and water my flags daily.

They like swallowing live rabbits whole, the voracious little cuties.

Re: Taught Shmaut

[davew0071.livejournal.com]

That's what I do; hold my hand, or hat, over my heart.

What gets me is the following question:

At baseball games, the flag is usually in shallow centerfield, but they show it on the Jumbo-Tron TV. I find myself looking at the larger screen than at the actual flag. Is there any etiquette regarding that?

Re: Taught Shmaut

[geobabe1.livejournal.com]

You're supposed to face the actual flag.

Re: Taught Shmaut

[js-africanus.livejournal.com]

zomg! Brilliant userpic for the thread. ^_^

Re: Taught Shmaut

[davew0071.livejournal.com]

Well, where I usually sit (somewhere along the right field line), I'm facing the actual flag and the DiamondVision board.

It's just that I'm not looking at the actual flag.

[skipmagic.livejournal.com]

It was hand-over-heart when we were taught back in the early '80s (or a salute if you were in your boyscout uniform), but these days I don't even bother to stand most of the time. I stopped standing in high school when I grew cynical about displays of patriotism. Of course, back then it was a youthful resolve to not let others define what patriotism meant to me; nowadays I just don't attend many (or any) events where the anthem is played.

[juniper200.livejournal.com]

I was taught hand over the heart. Men -- and women wearing men's-style hats such as baseball caps -- should remove the hat and hold it over their hearts.

Nowadays I just do respectful silent attention. Hand-over-the-heart has a weird vibe of reverence and "solidarity for the motherland" that I don't think jives with what I want America to be.

(FWIW, I don't say the Pledge of Allegiance, either, though I stand and face the flag without my hand over my heart while others say it.)

[fairychatmom.livejournal.com]

Your comments sum up my feeling pretty well. I had no problem saluting when I was in uniform. But the whole pledge-of-allegiance-loyalty-oath-hand-on-the-heart-or-you're-a-terrorist thing has completely turned me off in my adulthood. I avoid certain events at work just so I don't have to deal with the pledge or any of that crap.

I've been a government employee since I enlisted in 1973. I refuse to comply to prove my "patriotism" - especially considering how that word had been destroyed of late.

You can't be arrested for violating the "Flag Code" can you? I'm guessing not, considering the condition of many flags I've seen flying these days...

[mrblue92.livejournal.com]

Yea, as someone who doesn't really like nationalism that much, the "reverence" thing bothers me too.

Although (per above) if the girls want an excuse to feel themselves up, I've no real complaint.

[blairette.livejournal.com]

This is really interesting!

New Zealand - my country - has a developing etiquette for its national anthem. The song is in English, the lyrics were written by a Scottish poet whose name escapes me. Sometime between the 80s and 90s, at my school, the second verse of the anthem began to be replaced with a Maori translation of the first verse. I wonder if that has anything to do with the 150th anniversary of the Treaty of Waitangi which rolled around in 1990. It's not a long verse, and I think the Maori verse is pretty neat, and know it by heart.

I've seen few people besides rugby players sing the Kiwi anthem with their hand over their heart - but if people don't at least attempt to sing the Maori second verse, I think this is now seen as a faux pas. Certainly, politicians will be expected to sing the Maori verse.

[scout1222.livejournal.com]

I was always taught to put my hand over my heart for the anthem, and I'd say for a long time I always did that. Now I mostly hear the anthem at ballgames, and I notice that hardly anyone does the hand over the heart thing. So more and more I'm not doing it based on those around me, but secretly I feel like I should be doing it.